Discussion:
4.8.1 has been released
Dirk Hohndel
2018-07-13 23:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Tags are pushed. Source are up. Binaries are up. Post is up on our website, but not yet on FB. Download links are updated.
I wonder what I forgot this time...

The announcement would benefit from translation.

Speaking of which, we should reconsider some of the translations that we offer.

Dutch and Spanish are clearly actively maintained. German is somewhat maintained.
The other languages haven't seen updates in a long time...
Do we have people interested in maintaining French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Portuguese, and Finnish?
Because if we don't, then maybe we should discontinue those and focus on those languages where we have active maintainers.

Speaking of that - it's high time to refresh our website content in the first place. The pages haven't changed in quite a while and I think they are pretty stale and outdated at this time.

Any volunteers? Anyone with a knack for writing good copy who'd love to contribute to Subsurface by helping us refresh the website?

In the meantime, thanks to everyone who helped track down a couple of odd and hard to fix bugs, especially the download and configuration issues with some OSTCs and of course the crashes on Mac. These were rather odd issues to run into after the release.
While the log seems to indicate that the vast majority of the work was done by Jan and myself, I think it's fair to say that by far the majority of our commits are incremental improvements to the build system and cleanup work. The feature work came mostly from the other people in this list.

$ git shortlog -s -n v4.8.0..
41 Dirk Hohndel
25 jan Iversen
16 Berthold Stoeger
9 Joakim Bygdell
6 Stefan Fuchs
4 Lubomir I. Ivanov
4 Robert C. Helling
3 Salvador Cuñat
3 Linus Torvalds
1 Martin MěřinskÃœ
1 Miika Turkia
1 Anton Lundin
1 Alexander Wilms


Thanks everyone.

/D
Murillo Bernardes
2018-07-14 14:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk Hohndel
Tags are pushed. Source are up. Binaries are up. Post is up on our website, but not yet on FB. Download links are updated.
I wonder what I forgot this time...
The announcement would benefit from translation.
Speaking of which, we should reconsider some of the translations that we offer.
Dutch and Spanish are clearly actively maintained. German is somewhat maintained.
The other languages haven't seen updates in a long time...
Do we have people interested in maintaining French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Portuguese, and Finnish?
I have finished the Brazilian Portuguese a few days ago. Still have
some terms to make consistent all around but nothing huge. I plan to
keep it up to date.

Portugal Portuguese is also fully translated (by someone).
Post by Dirk Hohndel
Because if we don't, then maybe we should discontinue those and focus on those languages where we have active maintainers.
...
Dirk Hohndel
2018-07-14 14:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Murillo Bernardes
Post by Dirk Hohndel
Speaking of which, we should reconsider some of the translations that we offer.
Dutch and Spanish are clearly actively maintained. German is somewhat maintained.
The other languages haven't seen updates in a long time...
Do we have people interested in maintaining French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Portuguese, and Finnish?
I have finished the Brazilian Portuguese a few days ago. Still have
some terms to make consistent all around but nothing huge. I plan to
keep it up to date.
Portugal Portuguese is also fully translated (by someone).
I realize that this was rather easy to misunderstand. I changed the subject to make it
clear that this email is about the website...

The translations of Subsurface are in AMAZING shape. And we have more than a dozen
actively maintained translations that are at or near 100%.

The translations of the website, on the other hand, are a very different story. And that's
what I was referring to here.

Translations are hard work, and keeping them maintained is even harder work. But for
our non-English-speaking users, having a web presence (and announcements) in their
native language is a big deal. A few years ago we did a push for this and got the version
back then translated into

- German
- Spanish
- Dutch
- French
- Italian
- Polish
- Russian
- Portuguese
- Finnish

Of those languages, the first three are still somewhat maintained - new announcements
are usually translated. Some others have fallen way behind even on some of the static
pages. Polish doesn't have a translated landing page. Several of the languages don't
have the link to the latest versions. Even fewer have a current translation of the Download
page (which, btw, needs to be updated in English as well, which is another way of saying
"hey, I'm not pointing fingers... keeping the website up to date is hard and I fail most of
the time even for the two languages I sort of speak")

What I was trying to do with the comment in the announcement above was solicit feedback
on some of the languages that seem to have fallen further behind. Is anyone interested
in maintaining these languages? Or should we drop them if outdated content is actually
ending up being counter-productive?

/D
Dirk Hohndel
2018-07-14 14:41:24 UTC
Permalink
One more thing. I think a reasonable goal for any language would be that the static
pages are in sync and that the LATEST News posts are translated. I don't think there's
any point in today going back and translating the old announcements. If you decide to
start today, I'd suggest starting with the 4.8/2.1 announcement and those since.

Also, the website is maintained in GitHub, but I'm happy to take simply text files with
the translated text if this is easier for you. For those interested in translating on Github,
if a translation file doesn't exist there, please let me know and I'll create it on the backend.
The one thing that does NOT work is to create a new translation in git and to push it
into the website. Right now for the new announcements I create posts for German,
Dutch, and Spanish as those are the ones that usually get done. If you want me to
start creating other languages as well, just let me know and I'll be happy to do it.

Thanks

/D
Post by Dirk Hohndel
Of those languages, the first three are still somewhat maintained - new announcements
are usually translated. Some others have fallen way behind even on some of the static
pages. Polish doesn't have a translated landing page. Several of the languages don't
have the link to the latest versions. Even fewer have a current translation of the Download
page (which, btw, needs to be updated in English as well, which is another way of saying
"hey, I'm not pointing fingers... keeping the website up to date is hard and I fail most of
the time even for the two languages I sort of speak")
What I was trying to do with the comment in the announcement above was solicit feedback
on some of the languages that seem to have fallen further behind. Is anyone interested
in maintaining these languages? Or should we drop them if outdated content is actually
ending up being counter-productive?
/D
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Peter Zaal
2018-07-14 18:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi.

I have not actually looked at the website pages in GitHub, but out of
curiosity, did you ever think about, or considered using Transifex for the
translations of the website pages? Or would this now be too late or just
not fit that?
I have been contributing to the (Dutch) translations just recently, and I
find Transifex very easy and convenient to use. I am not comfortable with
GitHub and using one system for code, being GitHub, and one system for
translations, being Transifex, would make sense to me. That might also be
easier for people to contribute and keep up to date.

Peter
Post by Dirk Hohndel
One more thing. I think a reasonable goal for any language would be that the static
pages are in sync and that the LATEST News posts are translated. I don't think there's
any point in today going back and translating the old announcements. If you decide to
start today, I'd suggest starting with the 4.8/2.1 announcement and those since.
Also, the website is maintained in GitHub, but I'm happy to take simply text files with
the translated text if this is easier for you. For those interested in
translating on Github,
if a translation file doesn't exist there, please let me know and I'll
create it on the backend.
The one thing that does NOT work is to create a new translation in git and to push it
into the website. Right now for the new announcements I create posts for German,
Dutch, and Spanish as those are the ones that usually get done. If you want me to
start creating other languages as well, just let me know and I'll be happy to do it.
Thanks
/D
Post by Dirk Hohndel
Of those languages, the first three are still somewhat maintained - new
announcements
Post by Dirk Hohndel
are usually translated. Some others have fallen way behind even on some
of the static
Post by Dirk Hohndel
pages. Polish doesn't have a translated landing page. Several of the
languages don't
Post by Dirk Hohndel
have the link to the latest versions. Even fewer have a current
translation of the Download
Post by Dirk Hohndel
page (which, btw, needs to be updated in English as well, which is
another way of saying
Post by Dirk Hohndel
"hey, I'm not pointing fingers... keeping the website up to date is hard
and I fail most of
Post by Dirk Hohndel
the time even for the two languages I sort of speak")
What I was trying to do with the comment in the announcement above was
solicit feedback
Post by Dirk Hohndel
on some of the languages that seem to have fallen further behind. Is
anyone interested
Post by Dirk Hohndel
in maintaining these languages? Or should we drop them if outdated
content is actually
Post by Dirk Hohndel
ending up being counter-productive?
/D
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subsurface mailing list
http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
_______________________________________________
subsurface mailing list
http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Dirk Hohndel
2018-07-14 19:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi Peter,
I have not actually looked at the website pages in GitHub, but out of curiosity, did you ever think about, or considered using Transifex for the translations of the website pages? Or would this now be too late or just not fit that?
I have been contributing to the (Dutch) translations just recently, and I find Transifex very easy and convenient to use. I am not comfortable with GitHub and using one system for code, being GitHub, and one system for translations, being Transifex, would make sense to me. That might also be easier for people to contribute and keep up to date.
Those are all excellent comments and thoughts.
Here's a bit of history.
The Subsurface website is maintained in WordPress. A few years ago I started paying for a commercial quality theme and for a commercial version of a translation plugin. And then integrated all this with a tool that syncs the pages and posts into GitHub.
I got all of this to work and some people started translating on GitHub and as is not uncommon in all-volunteer projects I simply said "hey, this seems to work" and stopped messing with it.
The biggest problem in Subsurface is my role as principal bottleneck, to be honest. Very often we end up with solutions that "happen to work" and then I am resistant to change things because most of the time that change requires significant time investment from me.

I'm happy to look into wiring things up so that we can use Transifex for the translations. Let me look at what tools are available and how much manual work this will mean for me - because in the end, that's the part that I am most concerned about.

/D
Dirk Hohndel
2018-07-15 04:32:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk Hohndel
I'm happy to look into wiring things up so that we can use Transifex
for the translations. Let me look at what tools are available and how
much manual work this will mean for me - because in the end, that's the
part that I am most concerned about.
Hmm. I played around a bit. I hope the translators signed up on Transifex aren't tired of all the messages they got today. I think I'm 60% there to create a way to tie all this together. I'll keep trying as I find time and will post updates as this becomes usable...

Right now there's nothing to see or try.

/D
Peter Zaal
2018-07-15 05:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Just 4 notifications ;) I am happy that you are willing to look into this, I really think it would benefit to have more and up to date translations.
At the same time I understand that once a system is in place and working, you just let it be. And it's probably not an easy refactoring, so I don't expect anything soon, if at all. But then again, if it is possible and time permits, why not.

Peter
Post by Dirk Hohndel
I'm happy to look into wiring things up so that we can use Transifex
for the translations. Let me look at what tools are available and how
much manual work this will mean for me - because in the end, that's the
part that I am most concerned about.
Hmm. I played around a bit. I hope the translators signed up on Transifex aren't tired of all the messages they got today. I think I'm 60% there to create a way to tie all this together. I'll keep trying as I find time and will post updates as this becomes usable...

Right now there's nothing to see or try.

/D
Davide DB
2018-07-16 13:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dirk,

Moving website text to Transifex is the best and wise option.
I love the speed and user-friendliness of their tool.

I hope to contribute there soon for Italian language.

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